December 6, 2016
Greetings fellow citizens,
The broadcast you are about to read was recorded December 2, 2017 on KNUS AM Denver radio on the Jimmy Sengenberger show.
The “Resistance” refused to accept the election results of 2016 and the presidency of Donald J. Trump. This amounts to an effort to overturn the decided will of the people thus violating the Constitution and longstanding conventions of politics. It is important to understand such undermining has deeper roots than allegations of “collusion” with the Russians or the animus and contempt many of Trump’s opponents hold for him.
The podcast and transcript examine the “Resistance” in the light of longstanding Leftist and Marxist designs to gain power in America. The latter part of the broadcast takes up the “sexual revolution” of the 60’s with a unique perspective on who really benefited.
Persevere and be happy,
JIMMY SENGENBERGER: Saturday night is never alright for the third and final hour of “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show” because, well, it means we’re less than an hour away from the end of this edition of the program. But never fear, we will be back same time, same place for more engaging, intelligent talk, same style next Saturday night from 5:00-8:00 pm here on NewsTalk 710 KNUS. Plus, you can tune in Monday through Friday from 6:00-9:00 on our sister station KDMT Denver’s Money Talk 1690 AM, for “Business for Breakfast, with Jimmy Sengenberger”, again on 1690 KDMT from 6:00-9:00 Monday through Friday mornings. So six days a week, eighteen hours, not much to ask for. Appreciate your listenership. (303) 696-1971 is our telephone number if you want to be a part of the program.
So, you know, it’s been a little while since we’ve talked with our next guest here on “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show” but he is always just a real treat to have on the program. Very savvy insights that he provides are welcome all the time on this program. Dr. Marv Treiger is a retired psychotherapist, he is someone who is also a Buddhist teacher, he is a former Hard Left Radical that was so far to the Left that on the 50th Anniversary of the Bolshevic Revolution, he and a group of comrades bolted from the Communist Party because it was too, as I call it, CHINO for him: Communist in Name Only. It wasn’t radical enough. Over the years things changed and, especially in this century, Dr. Marv Treiger became a conservative and he is a Trump supporter as well. Now back in the day he was involved in a number of radical groups including Students for a Democratic Society. He did know – not well but he did know – Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dorhn and others – Michael Klonsky and others back in the day. Michael Klonsky being a roommate of his but Dr. Marv Treiger joins us once again on “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show.” Good evening Marv. Welcome back to the program.
MARVIN TREIGER: Hey Jimmy. It’s great to be here, looking forward to it.
SENGENBERGER: Always great to have you here, my friend. And so I want to start off by talking for a few moments about the “Resistance” and really trying to understand the nature of the “Resistance” of the Left against President Trump. And I want to start by couching it in this context, which is that earlier in the program in the last hour we were talking about the nature of some of the comments that have been made on some of the Left-wing news outlets. So, for example, MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” Joe Scarborough was saying that the 25th Amendment should be used to remove President Trump from office because he is mentally unstable. What is the tactic that you think is going on there and why are they using such language?
TREIGER: Well, you know, an outsider is in the Presidency and not only that but one who is very flamboyant in his use of the medium of tweets; one who has enraged not only the Progressive and Marxist Left but parts of the Republican Establishment as well. And he just doesn’t behave the way you’re supposed to if you’re a ruling class member. I mean, there are certain decorums to be followed and he doesn’t follow them. So they take that and then they make psychoanalytic observations and try to treat him as unfit.
But really, if we start to talk about The Resistance, part of it has to do with the fact that Trump is the President, but really, you know, this was likely to happen no matter who became the President because The Resistance is part of a deeper current within the Left, if I may say a word or two about that. You know, their belief, when Obama was in power, was that they were on a roll and that they were going to have a demographic majority, that all the diverse sectors of identity politics would unite together and they would march into the future, and that the future was a better future, it was one that they could see, it was, as Obama put it, the arch of history was bending toward them. And who was in the way? Well, Hilary described them, the “basket of deplorables” and the “basket of pitiables.” And the basket of deplorables you had to crush and the basket of pitiables you had to, you know, buy them off. And so they lost, and when they lost they went into complete shock. They never expected it. I mean, had they expected a Republican victory in the last election, Harry Reid would not have blown the judicial filibuster out of the water. They wouldn’t have done ~~ Obama would not have been so careless with all the misuses of government and the trail of really – as we’ll see as things unfold, I hope – the different illegal and criminal acts. So, The Resistance had to do with the fact that they were tasting victory, a final victory over the outmoded Constitution and its supporters. And they knew that a big section of the Republican Party were really, you know, just going to modify their program a little bit and was really on board and was a junior partner in the ruling establishment.
So that’s the real root of The Resistance. And I think that then you had someone like Trump and then the shock of the election, and so they fused those things together and they were able to gain a certain base of people who were, you know, outraged about Trump or whatever it might be, and that, I think, is the way to understand The Resistance. “Resistance” goes back – and it didn’t start with this victorious feeling they had now, but the Resistance goes back to the Marxist Movement. Very important to understand that. There was a group in Germany in the 20’s and 30’s – Herbert Marcuse was one of the main names of that. It was called Cultural Marxism. That group believed that the working class, the proletariat, was no longer a viable agent of revolution, but instead it had to be the Academy, the schools, the different institutions. And how would they accomplish the Revolution? They would introduce what Marcuse called “The Great Refusal”. Okay. The Great Refusal equals Resistance, and that is the origin. Now, they’ve been conquering different, you know, the Academy, the Media, Hollywood and cultural attainment, certain sections of the State and under Obama peopling the Administrative State – you know, every one of those agencies has its own SWAT Team, basically. And so all of that they now felt was a moment when they could drop the guise of believing in the democratic separation of powers and natural movement through the Constitutional methods that Madison and they others set up so brilliantly, and so they therefore decided to go 100% Resistance. And, you know, they support, behind the scenes, groups like Antifa, which is basically fascist thuggery. They support notions of hate-speech laws that eliminate free speech. They introduced courts in the universities, for example – Obama did this with Title IX – whereby the mere accusation against a man of having done something to a woman was the equivalent of conviction. And even Romney, by the way – I’m shifting gears a little bit here – even Romney, with regard to Roy Moore, Romney said that, while in law you have to have a conviction, in politics all you have to have is an allegation. And that’s, you know, completely against the due process and all of the stable institutions that keep our Republic sound and prosperous and fair. So that’s how I see The Resistance.
SENGENBERGER: Now, I want to jump in there again, Dr. Marv Treiger, our guest here on “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show”, and talk about, for a moment, if there are, like, different divisions of The Resistance, like different groups. You’ve talked before on this program about the Hard Left and the Soft Left, we don’t need to get into that unless it’s pertinent to a difference between The Resistance among those in The Resistance. But are there different segments of The Resistance that you see in this equation, what we’re examining right now in society today vis-a-vis Trump?
TREIGER: Well, let’s take a look at it in terms of their fundamental views and then it’ll be clear that they cannot help but have factions, divisions and all of that because the basic view that comes out of the Progressive Movement and out of the Marxist Movement has to do with the establishing of a subjective sense of morality. In other words, it’s like this movement on the campus where people are feeling bad and so they have to be protected from feeling bad, their feelings can’t be hurt. Well, that sounds completely silly but really they have a whole ideology around that. The ideology is that the things that are being said that make you feel bad are actually part of a systemic, racist, gender-oppressive, fascistic system. And so in other words, it’s not just that your feelings are hurt, it’s that you yourself are resisting this White Privilege-underlying oppressive system. And then, your morality, which is subjective, which is individual, you define your own happiness, you know, if it’s, whatever it is, smoking crack cocaine, whatever your ~~ you define your happiness. So therefore, they can’t unite. They can’t unite because there’s no final, common, underlying principles, whereas on the Right there are those common principles.
Now, the Constitution was an effort to establish them and that was an attempt to base it on an objective understanding of human nature, of human morality, of God-given rights. Now, we can never know fully and for sure just what that objective reality is, but the fact that we put forward that it exists and that we enter into the effort to comprehend it, to apply it, that gives us the potential for unity that doesn’t exists in The Resistance.
SENGENBERGER: I’m going to stop you —
TREIGER: The Resistance must eat itself, in the end.
SENGENBERGER: I’m going to stop you right there on that group, the campus safe space ideological group, and we’ll pick up this conversation with Dr. Marv Treiger on the other side of the break. Always insightful on understanding the nature of the Left, and where they’re at today and where they have come from in terms of their ideology, here on “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show” NewsTalk 710 KNUS, (303) 6960-1971.
SENGENBERGER: Boogeying back, it’s “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show” NewsTalk 710 KNUS. Thanks for joining us. (303) 696-1971, our telephone number if you’d like to be a part of the festivities. We’re talking for the moment about The Resistance and the nature of the Left with Dr. Marv Treiger…he’s our go-to guy to understand the nature of the Left and we’ll talk about some of the nature of society today at the bottom of the hour in our next segment.
Well we’ve got a few minutes left here for you Marv in this segment here. And I just want to kind of wrap up the discussion on The Resistance. What might you add or finish up from our discussion before?
TREIGER: Well, you know, right now I’m actually in an optimistic mood. I have a feeling that, you know, that this success of the tax cut – and I’m sure it’s going to pass fully now, now that it got past the major hurdle – and that this is going to mean that the Right and sort of an alliance between Conservatism, Populism and a section of the Establishment ruling elite, that that coalition is going to prevail and that the Left, because of its fragmentation and because it eats itself, that’s what it does ~~ by the way, a good example of that was the whole thing with Nancy Pelosi and John Conyers. One day she says we have to unite behind him, we have to support him because he’s an icon, he founded the Black Caucus and he’s been around for so long and, you know ~~ I mean, my gosh. And then more and more accusations and other things came out and then she said, no, he should resign, he should leave. In both cases, neglecting the issue of whether or not there should be an actual, you know, if a person denies that they’re doing these things then there has to be some sort of a trial, although it looks very bad when there are payoffs, especially if the payoffs are your money, which is what they are.
TREIGER: But nevertheless, you know, sometimes payoffs happen to avoid trouble, even though nothing happened. So, there really has to ~~ you know, the rule of law still has to be operative but the point that I was making here with Pelosi is that here, you know, it’s the unassailability of the Black Caucus and then on the other hand the rising militancy of the Women’s Movement to redress a true injustice, which is men assaulting them and using their power to do so. So that happens, and everywhere you turn, you know, there was a, I think in Virginia, there was ~~ oh yeah, the Virginia ACLU was shouted down by these Leftist thugs and protesters. And the ACLU is already a Left-wing organization and then they issued a couple of statements and the first one was not a big deal but the second one they pretty much capitulated to, you know, it was kind of like, we’re sorry, we were really wrong.
And so they will eat each other and they’ll also go to the extreme because they’re feeling their oats after the Obama Administration and the shock of having been defeated. So I think there’s a good prospect that they will go down seriously in defeat in 2018, just as in the early 70’s they went seriously down to defeat with the nomination of – what was his name?
SENGENBERGER: McGovern? George McGovern?
TREIGER: George McGovern, yeah. Because they just, all the extremists wrapped themselves around him, the counter-culturalists, the Marxists, the SDS-ers, the Jerry Rubins and the Abbie Hoffmans and the Hunter B. Thompsons and all those people and they were living in a dream world and in a bubble and they went down to really pretty severe defeat. I think that possibility exists in this coming election. So we shall see. It doesn’t mean we don’t have to fight it out.
I think it’s extremely important, by the way, at this moment, that Judge Roy Moore be supported. And I would recommend to your listeners —
SENGENBERGER: We can pick up on that conversation because you and I disagree on that.
TREIGER: Oh! [laughter] Oh, terrific.
SENGENBERGER: [laughter] If you’re watching, that kind of diverges from where I want to take this a little bit, you know, but we can certainly diverge —
TREIGER: I’d like to get into the whole Sexual Revolution and what’s happening on that dimension – I hope we’ll have time to do that —
SENGENBERGER: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely, I want to but we’ve also got a couple of calls that are coming in here on the program as well.
TREIGER: Okay. Roll away.
SENGENBERGER: So we’ll roll with the punches. (303) 696-1971 as we continue Dr. Marv Treiger, our guest here on “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show” NewsTalk 710 KNUS, keep it right here.
SENGENBERGER: B.B. King, the great, late B.B. King, Blues legend extraordinaire, doing the Christmas standard “Please Come Home for Christmas” as we continue on NewsTalk 710 KNUS with our guest Dr. Marv Treiger. He’s a Buddhist teacher but I don’t think you’ll take offense by me wishing you a very very Merry Christmas, Marv Treiger.
TREIGER: Oh not at all.
SENGENBERGER: Well, very Merry Christmas to you and to your lovely wife Cathy as well.
TREIGER: Thank you so much.
SENGENBERGER: So we’ve been having Tim waiting on the line wanting to talk a little bit in this conversation. Tim, you’re on with Dr. Marv Treiger and Jimmy Sengenberger.
TIM: You know, utterly amazing. Thank you guys, I can’t believe I’m in the head of the line. I just, first of all, quick question: do you record these shows? I want a recording of this.
SENGENBERGER: Yes. 710 KNUS.com, you can find “The Jimmy Sengenberger Show” there and the podcasts are accessible there.
TIM: Okay, I’ve got you pulled up right now and I will find it.
SENGENBERGER: It’ll be up probably on Monday, I believe.
TIM: On Monday.
TIM: And do I have Dr. Marv, M-A-R-V?
TREIGER: Tim, Tim, do you have —
TIM: And the last name Treiger, T-R-A-G-E-R, is that correct?
TREIGER: No, no, it’s T-R-E-I-G-E-R. But you should give your email to Jimmy’s show at the end and I will send you both a transcript and the podcast.
TIM: Oh, that’s just beautiful.
SENGENBERGER: So stay on the line and Andrew will get your email address and we’ll pass it on to Marv after. So what are your thoughts this evening?
TIM: Okay, my thoughts this evening. I’m just a hair under sixty-five, so I’m not an old guy yet, I’m proto-old guy, haha… And yes, and I grew up, believe it or not, in Boulder, Colorado before the mothership passed over one dark and stormy night and left a bunch of eggs. Obviously they didn’t get all the eggs, that’s why you have the Boulder City Council, I just thought I’d throw that in there. Somebody did not get all the eggs.
So, I grew up with a family member when I was eighteen, seventeen-eighteen years old, he was at the University of Colorado, he was the student President of the SDS there. I drove through clouds of tear gas, overturned police cars on fire, that kind of thing. And I saw the so-called “Revolution” at work, and this is in the 1960’s in Boulder. At that point, it wasn’t heavily funded like this movement, what you call The Resistance, is funded. Underlying all this is heavy money.
TREIGER: You’re right.
TIM: Dr. Treiger, would you discuss that? We have people like George Soros, who – I’ll be blunt about it, I call him a political whore – and he cares nothing about freedom, nothing about the Constitution, I think he absolutely hates America. We are a work in progress. America was never intended, the Founders understood we were not to be, we could not be, because of human nature, we cannot be utopia. What I —
SENGENBERGER: Now, and Marv —
TIM: Go ahead.
SENGENBERGER: I’m sorry, I just wanted to ~~ and Marv answering that question. Contrast the money aspect today – because it’s a very interesting question – with your involvement back in the day, Marv, with the SDS, Students for a Democratic Society.
TREIGER: Well, you know, there were always people who were willing to make donations, wealthy donors who were in one way or another connected to the movement. But I would say one of the first and main ways it was accomplished that monies went into the movement was free legal help. So groups like The National Lawyers Guild and others recruited lawyers and all these people made themselves available so that you knew when you got arrested, as I did, that, you know, all of your fees would be taken care of and all of those kinds of things would be handled. Then, in those days – and we’re talking now about the Hard Left, not just the SDS Left – that the Hard Left, it turns out that when the archives in the early 90’s were opened in Russia, it turns out that all through the period of the 60’s and the 70’s and the 80’s, Moscow money was actually funneled in to support, you know, their media outlets and to fund the comrades who were involved in every single movement. So there was that piece of it. But now, it’s at a whole other level, and the reason for that is that in those days it was a more or less – let’s call it a small outside force relative to a situation where the academies, where Hollywood, where international financiers who are interested in, on one level on a Socialist future and another level just feathering their own interests even more – and all of those monies come in.
So it’s at a grander scale. And Tim, you’re absolutely right that that’s the case, and Soros is one of the notorious funders. But all these monies work their way, you know. Just as we’ve seen now with the GPS Fusion operation, which is an operation, oppositional research firm that actually created the famous golden showers dossier, which was supposedly something Trump had done but it was a completely phony thing. Well, it turns out that the Democratic National Committee, through a law firm, Perkins Coie, used the law firm as a money laundering operation to completely fund that operation. Well, you can add that to things like James O’Keefe’s videos that show how the Antifa and the thugs on the streets were also being funded through all sorts of money laundering. So you’re absolutely right. And this, of course, makes them much more dangerous.
SENGENBERGER: Tim, final thought.
TIM: Final question for you guys. A lot of what – should I call you, you’re “Dr.”, right? Dr. Treiger?
TREIGER: Yeah. Ph.D.
SENGENBERGER: Have you written a book about this? I’m looking forward to the transcript, Jimmy. And thank you, guys, for letting me listen. First time I’ve popped into a show like this, I normally just sit back and listen. This is a good show, your articulation, overall articulation of this situation, to me, is fascinating and spot on, I mean, it’s just dead-on accurate. Have you written a book? Have you written anything, essays, books, concerning this and where do I find it?
TREIGER: Well, give them the email and I’ll send it to you. I have not written a book, I’ve been too busy living life then writing about it, but there’s things in the works.
SENGENBERGER: So, alright.
TIM: The transcript, send me the transcript from this show tonight. It is in essence, to me, like a small essay and I appreciate you both. I’m not a Hard Right-winger and I’ll be blunt about it, I voted Trump to keep the corruption of the Clintons out. I’ve watched them for decades, I’ve never seen anything, politically and in terms of the media, like this except in the history books, I have 100 volumes on Nazi Germany.
SENGENBERGER: Well, I appreciate that, and this is why ~~ it’s been far too long since we’ve had Dr. Marv Treiger on the program but this is why we like to bring Marv on. So thanks so much for the call, Tim, and Merry Christmas.
TIM: Thank you.
SENGENBERGER: Alright. So Marv, I want to get here, because we’re cutting low on time here, but I really wanted to get to this conversational topic about all the sex scandals that we’ve been seeing in Congress and in the media and everywhere. And this interesting connection – because I think folks like Tim will particularly find this insightful – from your experience back in the 1960’s and all of that with the advent of the Sexual Revolution and the Women’s Movement and so forth. There’s this interesting connection that you’ve identified that relates to power, the family and even the Communist project to destroy bourgeois society. Talk to us a little bit about that.
TREIGER: Well, actually it was yesterday, I kind of woke up and a little phrase popped into my mind and that phrase was this: “women sometimes use sex to get power; men often use power to get sex.” And that little kind of aphorism, I think, captures the interrelationship of the sex and power deal. So when we go back to the 60’s, and there was the Sexual Revolution and then shortly within that came the Women’s Liberation Movement. And there were certain things, for example, really important things, I mean, women needed to be protected from marauding men. Women needed to be opened into different parts of the workforce and have greater opportunities. Women needed to be respected and able to obtain positions of power. There were many, many positive dimensions that in the long run, my belief is, will help marriage and help couples. But at the same time, there was a con built in. And the con kind of goes a little bit like this: okay, we’ll give the gals The Pill, they’ll have all kinds of permission to be like us, love as many as we do, be as promiscuous as possible, we’ll give them absolute freedom of abortion so there won’t really be any consequences. And then what that meant, in fact and in practice as we’re seeing – in particularly in the celebrity culture, that’s where it’s most vivid – is that this simply meant that a whole new regime of, let’s call it patriarchal abuse of women, was actually instituted and women ended up getting a raw deal out of the whole thing, a big con.
Now, in my own practice as a psychotherapist, I can’t tell you how many women – this is in group therapy and individuals – who had had abortions based upon this kind of liberative culture – ended up regretting them the rest of their lives. It was often like a scar, just like a soldier who comes back with trauma, this was traumatic. And actually, I think that people hadn’t been talking too much about this part of what’s going on right now, which was the reinstitution of the kind of tendency of many men to use their power to gain sex and to reestablish just the way things were in the old days, in the ancient days, you know, when women had no power and they could have them just like that. Now, women have rights and everything else so they needed a new configuration to enable them to have the same old privilege. And these guys, by the way, these charges against these guys, most of them – I mean Franken and Harvey Weinstein – these are moronic men, in addition to being predatory men. One of your earlier songs, by the way that you played tonight —
TREIGER: Was, there’s a description of a player, and —
SENGENBERGER: Yes, it was.
TREIGER: A lot of what went on and continues to go on, is not this kind of predatory behavior – although that’s there – but also a certain, you know, being a player. And a lot of it is, you know, consensual. Now, nothing wrong with it form a legal standpoint or from a – you know, you have the choice to do that, that’s your business – but what has not been really registered fully at all in this country is the damage that is done to intimacy and to long-lasting marriage and to the ideal of the kind of unit that can raise children in such a way that they will grow up to know that they have that kind of a ground on which their lives are going to be built and they can then go out and complete it. And I think that in this country the Conservatives and the people on the Right but I think people, also Democrats and Liberals, that there’s a terrible sense that we’ve lost our moorings.
SENGENBERGER: Very fascinating. Dr. Marv Treiger, we’ll continue, wrap up and wind down with Marv and your calls. (303) 696-1971. Keep it here, 710 KNUS.
SENGENBERGER: Boogeying back, groovin’ along with a little Christmas music, Christmas Blues for you as we wrap up and wind down this Saturday, December 2nd edition of “the Jimmy Sengenberger Show” here on NewsTalk 710 KNUS. As always, it’s great to be with you, Saturdays 5:00-8:00 pm and of course Monday through Friday you can tune in 6:00-9:00 on our sister station KDMT Denver’s Money Talk 1690 AM for “Business for Breakfast.” We’ve been talking with Dr. Marv Treiger, retired psychotherapist, someone who was on the Hard Left or Radical Left back in the day. I don’t know if I would necessarily describe you, a Hard Left. Would you describe yourself as being on the Hard Left back in the day, Marv?
TREIGER: Oh yeah. Definitely.
SENGENBERGER: Okay, there you go. There you go. Definitely on the Hard Left. That means very Radically Left back in the day. And now he’s a Conservative and a Trump supporter. And he’s been our guest here this hour on the program. And let’s go, wrapping up this show with Jim in Denver, got about a minute here Jim, so we can squeeze in some time with Marv for response. What’s going on?
JIM: Well, I like your guest a lot. I think he’s a lot of fun. He’s like me, I was Left and now I’m Right – I’m way Right. Today I’m ~~ you know, one of those terrible people, I have two jobs, drove 120 miles to get to the job, worked eight hours and drove back 120 miles so I’m a little bit tired. But nevertheless I agree with his opinion regarding Ray [Roy] Moore or whatever the guy’s name is. You know, you’ve got the Sexual Revolution where women are equal sexually, etc, in every aspect, which is kind of absurd, and then you have them portrayed as wilting flowers on the other hand where they need to be protected. So it’s a double standard and your guest, I’d like to hear what he has to say about that.
SENGENBERGER: What do you think, Marv?
TREIGER: Well, you know, it’s always going to be ~~ it’s got to be a double standard because you’ve got two different genders. And despite what they’re saying on the campuses, you know, that gender is a construction, you know, that your gender isn’t determined at birth, I mean, or at conception. Unreal. Won’t go into that. But so, men and women are, you know, composed and made up differently. And I think, by the way, one of the real great reasons for long-term marriage, aside from the raising of children, is the actual discovery of just how different another human being is, particularly one of the other gender. And —
JIM: Yeah, I would like to ask the guest, Marv, if he had heard himself saying that forty years ago, what he would have responded.
TREIGER: Well, I would have worked it into my act to conquer another lady.
JIM: [laughter] Yeah, but what would your political response have been?
TREIGER: Well, I mean, you now, thirty years ago I was a Marxist Leftist. And so, you know, the sort of the free love thing, you know, really, in a way, it goes back to 1923 in Moscow after the Bolshevik Revolution, the leading play in the whole city was called “Three on a Couch.” And that’s what all the comrades went to see, so promiscuity was the name of the game. And if you didn’t have, you know, like, power, wealth and good looks but you were one of the comrades, you could do alright. And that’s what guys, you know, that’s what we were interested in. And interestingly enough, by the way —
SENGENBERGER: Real quick, Marv.
TREIGER: With regard to Roy Moore, just ~~ you know, he was a Democrat forty years ago [laughter].
JIM: One little thing: how do you defend against something that happened forty years ago?
SENGENBERGER: Well, I’m so sorry gentlemen. We are up against a hard break now. It’s certainly something to talk about at another time. But, appreciate it, Dr. Marv Treiger, always a pleasure, Sir. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Thanks for joining us.
[End of Tape]